ac cobra prices????

[Jan_AC_MKIV_1227]

Emmanuel, you are tough to figure out, MKIV's ARE genuine Cobra's, (but NOT ORIGINAL), I think we can all agree on that, no matter what you think, you are flat out wrong regarding the MKIV, MKIV's were made by AC, under Ford's blessing, in the UK, and in most cases with Aluminum bodies by very skilled English craftsman.  Just because there were some political and legal forces at work with Mr. Shelby in the 80's and his involvement with "another" of the big three, and the political motives behind SAAC, most people agree AC's are genuine, they are even kept track of by SAAC.  Anyway, I love my car and you are entitled to your opinion but honestly, some of the things you have said, should maybe not be published on an AC automobile forum.
   
   Regards,
   
   Jan

[Emmanueld]

quote:Originally posted by Jan_AC_MKIV_1227
   
Emmanuel, you are tough to figure out, MKIV's ARE genuine Cobra's, (but NOT ORIGINAL), .......
     Anyway, I love my car and you are entitled to your opinion but honestly, some of the things you have said, should maybe not be published on an AC automobile forum.
   

   
   Jan, What about freedom of expression, here or anywhere else, this is my belief, and I think it is the most logical. I am sure you love your car and so you should.
   However, a Cobra the MKIV is not, it was buit by a different company, Autocraft, eventually B. Angliss was able to purchase or use the AC name in the 80s' but not the Cobra name. In addition, the car is so different from the original car, that even a replica it is not. The definition of replica is something which look exactly like the original!
   
   Emmanuel

[Jan_AC_MKIV_1227]

Fine, this discussion will be closed by me and you can post whatever you want, be it courteous or not, but MKIV's are not replicas, they are original AC's that Brian built under the AC name, BTW, in Europe the cars were legally allowed to use the Cobra badge, you may need some more study regarding the history of AC and why certain things were done the way they were.  For the last time, I am not saying the MKIV is "original" or a replica BUT A GENUINE AC, just like your car.
   
   Regards,
   
   Jan

[braco]

Hi Emanueld,
   my opinion is: people like USA cars want to buy Schelby's Cobras.
   People like Englisch cars want to buy AC Cobras.
   Two diverse worlds.
   Others people buy Original's Replicas.
   Next from China?

[jbottini]

I hear the Pantera group calling  "Emmanueld..Emmanueld...please xxx'x come home!!!

[cobham cobra]

I hear they're saying "isn't it quiet without Emmanueld ?"[]

[Jan_AC_MKIV_1227]

[SB7019]

I think Braco sums it up well.
   
   Having followed this discussion and similar ones on the Club Cobra site it just confirms to me that there are huge differences in the attitudes to automobiles on each side of the Atlantic.
   
   The US has traditionally believed that quantity is a key ingredient of quality.  Hence why Cadillacs and Lincolns were considered "luxury" cars while having a level of quality and handling that was embarrassingly bad.  There are relatively few challenging roads in the US and the speeds people are allowed to travel at are ridiculously low.  Hence the dragster like ability of an over engined 427 Shelby Cobra is in it's element there.
   
   Over here we apreciate and understand quality workmanship and have roads that can bring out the best in a well balanced chassis.  As a result the MkIV which has very high build quality and better weight distribution is more appreciated in Europe.
   
   When discussing the build of my Cobra (which outside of the US it can legally be called due to the agreement with AC and Ford, who own the name) with the AC factory I contemplated having them build a 427 MK3 (replica? recreation?) but was strongly advised against it due to it's lack of suitability for UK driving conditions.  Equally if I ever move to the US again I will certainly leave my car here and buy a Shelby or Kirkham over there.
   
   As always it's horses for courses.
   
   This also explains why US manufacturers have had a tragic record when trying to sell their domestic products in Europe and equally why Ford's attempts to sell European cars in the US (Mercur and Contour for example) have also been dismal failures.

[Emmanueld]

quote:Originally posted by SB7019
   
   The US has traditionally believed that quantity is a key ingredient of quality.  Hence why Cadillacs and Lincolns were considered "luxury" cars while having a level of quality and handling that was embarrassingly bad.
   

   
   I agree with you that the philosophy of building cars in the United Sates and in Europe has always been different.
   
   I also agree that the handling capabilities of European built cars have often been superior. US roads are much larger with far less turns, so there is less need for a car with good handling.
   
   As far as quality however, up to the early seventies American cars were far superior in quality and reliability to their European counterparts with maybe the exception of Mercedes Benz, in corrosion resistance, engine and drive-train quality, and even construction.
   
   American cars could go 150,000 miles without a major rebuilt with their big under-stressed V8 engines. They also were equipped with power steering, automatic transmission, air conditioning and various electric devices which were virtually unheard of in Europe.
   
   For the price of a loaded Mustang or Camaro in the US, the European customer could buy maybe a Peugeot 404 or a Ford Taunus, hardly in the same league.
   
   The problems came in the seventies with the birth of anti-pollution devices which were crude and inefficient and with the 1973 oil crisis which forced Detroit to build smaller cars. They did not know how and these cars were horrible! It happened in Europe too, remember British Leyland! This is why England has no more automobile industry.
   
   In the last few years however, the quality of US built cars has been improving steadily and they are getting closer to their European counterparts who themselves now have to play catch up with Japanese autos for quality and reliability!
   
   My 2 cents![]
   
   
   Emmanuel

[ak1234]

Oh boy now we have two of them .. cant we get back on task .... PRICES GENTLEMEN ..that was the topic.
   
   SO7019 ...thanks for your opinion.  Keep in mind the over priced Rolls Royce that drives like a Mack Truck, and the Boston Tea Party ... LOL  we aint going to pay 45% tax out of our salaries and drive 4 cylinders.
   
   Tell me why is the MKV 68,000 pounds in UK = 128,000 aprox US ??  I bought my MKIV in the US for 1/3.
   
   Ron

[Emmanueld]

quote:Originally posted by SB7019
   
   There are relatively few challenging roads in the US and the speeds people are allowed to travel at are ridiculously low.  Hence the dragster like ability of an over engined 427 Shelby Cobra is in it's element there.
   

   
   Please come to California Washington State or Colorado, there are plenty of challenging roads. Also we don't have radars everywhere like in Europe. Also what does over engined mean? How could Jo Schlesser win the Targa Florio in 1965 in a 427 Cobra? The 427 was unbeatable at the time, too bad Shelby was not able to get it homologated for the 1965 season. Also, if you think the front is too heavy just get an aluminum 427 FE block from Shelby or Genesis.
   
   

quote:Originally posted by SB7019
   
   Over here we apreciate and understand quality workmanship and have roads that can bring out the best in a well balanced chassis.  As a result the MkIV which has very high build quality and better weight distribution is more appreciated in Europe.
   

   
   Because over here we are just a bunch of red neck and we don't have roads that can bring out the best in a well balanced chassis! Why is that that over 1/2 the production of exotics cars in the world ends up in the US.
   
   Another 2 cents!

[SB7019]

This is fun!
   
   Emmanuel   I agree that quality improvements have been steadily made on US cars in terms of reliability and TGW's.  However the workmanship - especially on interiors, is still way behind European and Japanese standards.  In the meantime the quality of all vehicles worldwide has also been improving (though Mercedes and more recently Toyota have had some upsets).   As a result the relative quality gap is still high and, for this and other reasons, imports of US cars to Europe and Asia are infinitessimal.  The interesting thing is that England is now building record numbers of cars (and exports many of them to the US) though none of the mass manufacturers are domestically owned.  A similar prospect is possible for the US unless Mulally, Wagoner and La Sorda (or whoever replaces him?) drive the progress we are all hoping for.
   
   AK1234.   The point I was trying to make is that the price differences are to some extent a result of the differing market needs and expectations.   I agree that the Rolls Royce (BMW?) is overpriced, particularly in relation to the Bentley (VW?), but that does not seem to hold back the fact that more are sold in the US than in any other market.  Maybe it's because you like to drive trucks for domestic use so much?   BTW the highest marginal rate of income tax rate in the UK is 40% and yet when I worked in the US I paid  over 50% (including state taxes) plus a much higher level of social security.   I did however have the benefit of having 12 cylinder cars while there - but strangely enough they were built in Europe.

[ak1234]

SO7019 ..exactly my point we in the USA appreciate High Quality and not just quantity .. as per the Rolls Bentley you build them we enjoy them .. both of which are driven by a Chaufer and riden by the owner. Like the Cadilac and Lincoln prior to 1973 were high quality and like all four large cars, to afford them money was no worry.  The Cadillac and Lincoln were a pleasure to drive and ride.
   
   Never heard of such a fact 50% tax on income .. 33% max and if you are in the upper tax bracket .. your putting more thru your business and paying less tax ... ( with out opening up another can of worms .. BUSH"S TAX PLAN ) LOL
   
   Europe is NOT the only place that produces and appreciates high quality products.  For example how many MKIV's are in Euro and how many in USA.  We both appreciate the same car in 2 " huge different "  world's.

[SB7019]

Emmanuel
   
   I agree there are some nice roads in California, Colorado and Washington State.  Thats why I said "relatively few" as less than 1/6th of the population live in these states.  If there are no radars in the US how come most people drive at the (55 -65 mph) speed limits?
   
   
   How could Jo Schlesser win the 1965 Targa Florio in a 427 Cobra when no Cobras were even entered in the race?!   The best result was 8th in 1964 by a 289.  There was a 427 entered in the 1966 race but it only completed one lap.    It is well known that the 427 did not have any track success in any major races as it was totally outclassed by the mid engined cars that emerged around this time.  The only truly successful racing Cobras were all 289's - especially the Daytonas.
   
   Why do 1/2 the worlds exotics end up in the US?  Because, as Willy Sutton replied when asked why he robbed banks "that's where the money is".
   
   ak1234
   
   I last worked in the US in the mid 90's when the marginal federal rate was 39.6% and state taxes were over 10%.  The highest federal rate is now 35% with some state taxes close to 10% with California at 10.3%.  The highest rate in the UK has been 40% for over 10 years.  Suggest we close this subject or find a forum for tax lovers rather than car lovers - if such a thing exists.
   
   The last time I drove a Lincoln in Europe was a MkIV (no not a Cobra!) in 1973.  It was a huge laugh but totally unsuited to the roads around here.   Ford sold 6 of them in the UK that year.
   
   If the quality of the pre 1973 Lincolns and Cadillacs was so high can I assume that around 60% of them are still on the road, as is the case with Bentleys and Rolls Royces?  Using the same measure of course proves that the Cobra is an incredibly high quality car as I suspect that over 100% of the cars originally built are still on the road!

[cobham cobra]

So can I assume it's a quiet(wet)day in Essex today then Peter ?[]
   Cheers - John
   
   PS: I blame you for encouraging the continuation of this thread []