AC Owners Club Forum
AC Owners Club Forum => General Forum => Topic started by: GSouthee on May 17, 2023, 15:54:12
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Its time for me to depart from the ACOC. I have received my last ACtion.
I see in Simon and Keith letter show that for the last few years we have had some secrecy from the council, no wonder they did not want to publish minutes of the meetings.
Glad to see this appears to have changed in that minutes are seen in brief by the members.
It is a shame that the club still appears to be Cobra/Ace centric, but that's way of life they are the 'money' cars.
I see the CRP&G is also being hidden from the membership. Another cover up? I agree with Simon and Keith Registrars should run a registry of the facts relating to any car, not opinion. The rest is up to prospective buyers. Simple!
Anyway I will be at Le Mans and then that's it. I have moved on to a model friendlier and more inclusive club.
I will always pop up on here with the Ol Girl.
So tatty bye.
Gary
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All members and bona-fide non-members can get Council’s RP&G (ACOC Registrar Policies and Guidance) from any registrar or Council member.
"Not to pass judgement, and to include adverse as well positive information" has been Council’s written policy since January 2002.
RS
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Heck, I just joined this week and looking for my first
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What is 'CP&GP' ?
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Old Crock. Not many members know!
R Stainer. I wonder what a 'Bona Fide' Non member is, as against a Non Bona Fide member?, surely all non members are Bona Fide in being genuine non members.
Gary
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Sorry to see you go Gary, hopefully you will be back sometime.
A couple of things I will point out for the benefit of current and future Members alike.
Assuming that CPR&G should read RP&G (Registrar Policies and Guidance) this document is published within the members area of this website along with the Articles of Association, a listing of Club Officers and the Accounts. You will also find this years AGM papers if interested.
Less than a third of of the club's council / committee members own 1960's Cobra or Ace models, fortunately there are many far more affordable AC's for us mere mortals to cherish and enjoy.
Best for the future,
David
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I wonder what a 'Bona Fide' Non member is, as against a Non Bona Fide member?, surely all non members are Bona Fide in being genuine non members.
Gary, a 'bona fide' non-member is one with a legitimate enquiry (no deception, no self-interest etc), from the Latin 'good faith' meaning. This legitimacy requirement was first stated by Council over twenty tears ago (31 Jan 2002): 'To provide enquirers with a car’s historical information, subject to the enquirer having legitimate reason'.
RS
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Hi David
Will see you at Le Mans.
I am sure some members of the council own AC's other than Cobras/Aces, however I feel that the general feel of the club in towards the Ace/Cobra. My thoughts based on the way I see it.
Maybe, you should also point out that at Santa Pod seat belts are 'Mandatory', as this may preclude some models from participating.
R Stainer, many thanks for the clarity and a Latin lesson to boot ;), I now see it is Non Member with a Bona Fide interest. Maybe a grammar thing.
Stay safe all and keep the shiny side up.
Gary
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Dear Gary,
I hope you might change your mind: I for one will miss your pithy comments and not having your regular updates on the 'Old Girl' will be greatly missed. We all get our Club impression from ACtion and this Forum so losing your 2 litre Saloon perspective might tend to reinforce the Ace and Cobra centricity which you oppose....
Turning to the relationship between Council of Management and The Membership I suppose it is no great secret that I am uneasy about recent Council activities, including some 'diplomatic' care being applied to the minutes prior to publication and yet, in fairness, I find myself having to defend our Council from your comments about secrecy: The Council meetings are open to observation by Members and with the adoption of 'Zoom' this has become easy. Members are made welcome and their views are, where appropriate, solicited and listened to. Meetings are recorded and the minutes are written up from the recordings. Of necessity ACtion cannot publish, in full, the verbatim script from a two hour meeting. Possibly Gary you have already attended a Council meeting as a Club Member ? If not perhaps you should before leaving us.
Finally the difficult and universal problem of Registers. Remembering that 'the love of money is the root of all evil' we have seen the serious difficulties which other 'one make' clubs have got themselves into in recent times and, again in fairness, our Club had the foresight some twenty years ago to sort out some policies and guidelines which, thus far, have saved the Member's subscriptions being wasted on legalities. With respect 'running a registry of facts' is not simple. Going back a few years I would have agreed completely with what you propose - record in the registers what is known and let the rest of us make our own minds up. However we live in a World where truth is subordinate to self interest and even a Registrar who proposes such a system, as you describe, finds it necessary to form a judgement on a claim of ownership based on forged papers. Quite correctly that Registrar formed an opinion and rejected that claim.
I hope you and the Old Girl enjoy many miles of A.C. motoring and I hope we might meet one day should you be this far north or I make a rare appearance at an A.C. event thus far south
Yours aye
Barrie
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Hi Barrie
I will always be loitering around here on the Forum. The Ol Girl will be mentioned from time to time as and when I am fiddling about. Still attempting to complete the front Disc conversion. Now looking at Bike carbs for better performance and something different, 6 carbs lovely intake sound :P.
The secrecy element I was alluding to was from the past when minutes did not appear and many things were kept out of the loop. I am sure that now there are improvements, I just don't do Zoom or any other form of hi tech comms, social media etc etc.
I have run a registry in the past and found it quite simple, record facts against a serial number/VIN etc and make no comment on authenticity. let the buyer/owner make his own mind up. But then I live a simple life with a simple car, I don't care much for its value to others only to me.
I have joined another club and the Ol Girl and AC marque has been welcomed and some great comments and interest.
I hope the club does come good and maybe I will revisit one day, but at present have no interest in the club and its activities. Hey ho each to their own.
Take care
Gary
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The magazine can only publish articles that are received. John Spencer, the Librarian, pens a magnificent historical article each month on the diverse history of AC etc, rarely ever about a Cobra. If 2 Litre owners want to write in, also PVT or Vintage we'd all be interested to see the article and read about them. The Forum does dilute some interest in the magazine as it is more immediate and being 'open' has brought its problems to the club, notably the removal of the right to use the AC logo by Mr Lubinsky. The recent very successful National Day was mainly populated by Ace/Aceca/Greyhound but also 3x PVT, 4x CRS, 2x Superblower, 2x MkIV, 1x 378, 1x Frua, 2x 2 Litre, 1x Special so if you wanted to see what AC cars were like, there was a great representation of its products. Interestingly the model proportions probably equal magazine content when you look at it.
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Hi Bobby
Sadly you have either misread my post or just going on a rant. I did not say the magazine does not have some interesting articles, in fact I did not mention the magazine other than to say that I have received my last ACtion, as no longer a member.
I am glad the National went well, just not my thing. I already know about the various models of AC.
I still believe the club is generally Ace and its derivatives/Cobra centric. It would not recognise the 75th anniversary of the 2 litre Saloon last year, it was stated that there may be a celebration of the Ace's 70th (point made me thinks). Look at all the Auction info in Action mostly Ace/Cobra.
I never had the desire to write a story/article about the my car for ACtion, I prefer the immediacy of the Forum. It is a shame that it is not used more to pull in new club members. Post some pics of the National so that non members can see what the National is about. Maybe stick on a video of the National. It is no good just sticking it in the Mag as only members will see them. The club/association I have moved to does just that and the Ol' Girl features in a number of them.
Still Hope the club grows and starts to get a younger membership.
I have lost interest in the club. My Bad. However, If I can find a way to fit a seatbelt to the Ol' Girl, I will attend the Santa Pod visit and lend support.
Stay safe all.
Gary
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My view is that everyone with an AC gets a voice but, please understand, I am new here.
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Not a rant Gary but the Forum is open to all, not just ACOC members but not all ACOC members use the forum so even though articles are placed on the Forum it would be nice to see them appear in the magazine for the whole membership to enjoy.
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Bobby
I know the Forum is open to all, and glad that it is as hopefully non-members get to see and hear about AC cars. You never know they may take it upon themselves to join the Club.
Unfortunately, ACtion does not lend it self well to ongoing resto's, mod's etc as much as the Forum does. Take the resto/mod of BE646 as an example. It is live and current, you can zoom in on the pics for a better view, not possible in the small format ACtion.
Surely, it is better to fly the flag for AC cars outside the Club as those that are members already no about our cars. Maybe more members should try the Forum.
Anyway, I will still support the AC Marque and the club by using the Forum, and driving my car around the UK and Europe, attending meets and generally chatting to people who really don't know the Marque beyond a Cobra.
I am not happy about leaving the Club but there was not anything in it for me. I hardly ever read an ACtion cover to cover, sometimes, there was something that I found interesting, but, not often. Yet, I find many things on the Forum of interest and of use.
Each to there own, I hope is will be well.
I will be pottering around Suffolk soon, so anybody who see's me stop and have a chat.
Gary
Gary
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Whilst the forum offers a more or less immediacy in how members can interact sitting from home, it suffers from a certain ephemeral vibe that afflicts most if not all Internet-based ways of communications.
It seems to me that ACtion has always encouraged the authors of articles to go in a certain depths within the topics/stories they were writing about, as one may probably expect anything to be actually written and printed to be of higher quality that what we may and do read on the Internet sometimes, notwithstanding the effort we all make to keep the content on here of generally high quality.
I do hope that members will keep writing for ACtion on topics that go a bit deeper than the usual technical chit chat.
I know it's a cliché, but may I also state that before stating that the club does not offer what we expect from it, we should perhaps question ourselves in what we could bring to it. Just like with life in general people who bring the least are very good at complaining the most.
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TTM
I agree to a point but, the Forum is far from ephemeral as all content is on here for as long at the Forum runs. Yes, content maybe less detailed than the printed format, however, the quality however short is usually good and often supported by photo's.
It is well known that I have little interest in ACtion and the majority of the content, it does not mean it is not for all, maybe members like to see all the same adverts for ACOC events month on month, but as I say each to their own.
Quote 'I know it's a cliché, but may I also state that before stating that the club does not offer what we expect from it, we should perhaps question ourselves in what we could bring to it. Just like with life in general people who bring the least are very good at complaining the most.'
I may moan, but, I have put some effort in to club, I have assisted at the Sprint, Offered my services to the club to assist in organising Le Mans trips. I even put my self forward to a position on the Council. Oh and yes it is a cliché.
I do not suggest that the club does not offer some what they want, just that it has nothing for me at this time.
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I have come rather late to this discussion, being one of the largely silent majority of club members and a fairly infrequent user of the Forum. However, I’m concerned at the impression that Eric might have formed from the various exchanges here, and I would like to offer him as reassurance that having been a club member of nearly 40 years, I have found it to consist of a very welcoming and friendly body of people. I have nothing but gratitude and praise for the officials who have freely given their time in the efficient running of the club’s affairs. The international and national events that we have attended have always been most enjoyable with an excellent mix of motoring and socialising with friends. In the south midlands we have a monthly social gathering to which all are welcome. I really don’t recognise the suggestion that the club is Cobra/Ace-centric. “Action” always carries a range of topics with a major feature being John Spencer’s delve into the archives which pre-date those models. Any model bias in what gets posted on the forum is presumably simply a reflection of the numbers of those models built and thus owned by club members. There are always members willing to offer help and advice in resolving problems with ownership of our cars.
Hopefully Eric will make up his own mind about the value of having joined the club and will not be influenced by any negative views expressed by others.
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I totally agree with psjsam, being a member of over 50 years the club official's do an excellent job
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On the opposite side of the issue I got my first Action and I can say well done. Everyone has a different perspective on these sorts of things but as Abraham Lincoln said "you can please some of the people some of the time but you cannot please all of the people all of the time." Enjoying my Mark IV and wish the pond was not so big.
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Glad you like your MkIV Eric, they are great cars, utterly usable.
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Gary we all have the rights to our own opinions.
You seemed to enjoy the hospitality within the ACOC and AC Club de France enclosure at last weekend's Le Mans Classic. You appeared happy to take advantage of our pre-ordered ticket package with a special Clubs Only infield car pass for your AC 2 Litre Saloon allowing you to park in the ACOC Enclosure.
The basic stats for the ACOC Le Mans Classic tour were:
2 x Chateaux exclusively booked for the ACOC members
15 x Ferry tickets Portsmouth to St Malo return available at discounted price to ACOC members.
44 x ACOC members participating in the tour, with 25 cars of which 12 were ACs.
46 x ACOC and AC Club de France members attended a joint dinner on Friday night at a restaurant in Arnage with complimentary Champagne courtesy of Robert Sarrailh and ATS Le Mans.
33 x ACOC members enjoyed Sunday evening dinner at one or our Chateaux.
That all took a lot of organising and our AC Owners Club goes to great lengths to provide excellent value at this and other events which are available to all of our members. It is a shame if you no longer wish to be part of it, but perhaps you will have second thoughts. You may also have noticed a few younger members and sons of members turning up at Club events. The age demographic is a problem with all car clubs these days and is an issue which the ACOC is trying hard to address.
Take care, Andy.
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It is unfortunate that now a none member freely uses the facilities of the Club in spite of criticizing it & preferring to be a member of a so called better club, yes he should re join the Club as suggested if he expects to benefit from it!
Robin
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Hi Andy
Yes I did indeed enjoy the hospitality of the ACOC members in the club enclosure.
I do not agree with the comment 'You appeared happy to take advantage of our pre-ordered ticket package with a special Clubs Only infield car pass for your AC 2 Litre Saloon allowing you to park in the ACOC Enclosure'. I was actually still a member when the tickets were ordered and as such was entitled to do so.
I am sure it was a lot of hard work, which as you may recall I did offer my assistance, but was not taken up on it.
Anyway glad to see a nice range of cars on the enclosure as stated in the bit on the Le Mans classic post above.
Robin
I have never said I have joined a better club just one suits me. I do not consider your opinion of any consequence to me. I did not expect to benefit from using the facilities of the cub, I paid for the use. Now I must move on.
My views are my own and should not affect any others, Each to their own.
Cheers
Gary
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I enjoyed meeting with Gary on Friday morning at Le Mans Classic who showed me around his neatly-upgraded Saloon and I consider the defection of a proper hands-on enthusiast a significant loss to the club.
However one thing I would like to say at this stage is that the Internet does not allow some communication nuances such as the tone and irony to pass through and requires a high level of restrain as we post that I have always found somewhat frustrating - it's just not like we can chat on here like we would around a dinner table after the umpteenth glass of wine, for instance.
I would strongly encourage Gary to join back and show us through articles in ACtion all the things he has done to upgrade his car. It really is not that difficult. If a basic foreigner like me can write several page articles every now and then then that should not be too much of a problem for a proper English chap who has proper technical things to say rather than just tries to say something. Come on Gary, we know you can do it and do every one and yourself a favour. Continued engineering and developments are what our cars need to keep going strong and hold the AC name well high in the motoring hall of fame.
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TTM, you are so right about the internet losing the nuances of face to face conversation. In my message to Gary, I tried to describe the Le Mans package which was offered by the ACOC to its members, and quantify the number of happy souls who enjoyed their experience.
I spoke to Gary in the ACOC Enclosure and was glad to see his 2 litre Saloon there. I would much prefer that he continues to be an ACOC member and makes a positive contribution to the Club. He has every right to his own opinions, but doesn't appear to value the enormous amount of hard work done by a small number of people, all for free, for the benefit of the membership.
Sadly I have a bit of a problem with the word "entitled" when benefitting from the efforts of unpaid volunteers. I don't tend to talk a lot, but just get things done without any expectation of reward and I always end up out of pocket. Maybe that's just the way I am, and I certainly do not criticise others who freely do the same for me. I am sure there are others who could do a better job than me, but when I look round for help those who talk the talk are nowhere to be seen.
Having already organised 3 ACOC trips to Le Mans Classic, I would love to hand over to someone new. Please form an orderly queue and register your application for the job!
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Having already organised 3 ACOC trips to Le Mans Classic, I would love to hand over to someone new. Please form an orderly queue and register your application for the job!
I suppose a local could be appointed volunteer... apart perhaps from organising ferry tickets? To be discussed ;)
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Steady Thomas! Yes we can discuss 2025 whenever you like and I am happy to help with ferries or whatever I can. Many thanks.
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Andy and anyone else who reads this.
I have always valued the work done by the volunteers, never have I said otherwise.
As to your comment 'but when I look round for help those who talk the talk are nowhere to be seen.', if you had taken me up on my offer of help with the Le Mans trip on this last occasion and that in 2022, but alas not not taken up by nor even acknowledged by you, you would not feel this way. I emailed you directly and made the offer on here on the Forum, as well as to the current Chairman.
As to my comment re entitled this was in relation to being entitled to be able to take up the offer of booking trip packaged tickets as a member at the time.
I hope that if a queue is formed to take over the organizing of the trip in future it is acknowledged and taken up instead of being ignored.
I may well re-join the club in the future if it seems to me to offer something I think is for me. I hope it will.
I wish no-one any ill will nor ever have, I know the current chairman has a lot to do, along with the council to bring the club into the 21st century. I wish all well.
Thomas nice to meet you and many thanks for your comments and maybe if I return to the fold I may do a bit in Action, but I wont hold my breath.
Take care