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Chafford

United Kingdom
695 Posts

Posted - 10 March 2012 :  16:34:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's the latest Cobra derivative from AC - a composite bodied car to be built by Hi Tech in South Africa and yours for 67,500. It'll have a Corvette LS3 engine for Europe and a Ford V8 for the UK. I wonder whether this is a specially commissioned design for AC or merely a Superformance with an AC badge.

AC Mk11 Classic


Edited by - Chafford on 10 March 2012 19:19:38

Chafford

United Kingdom
695 Posts

Posted - 24 March 2012 :  14:54:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And another photo of the Mk 11 composite bodied car (with the 175,000 aluminium version in the background) at this month's Geneva Motor Show.


Edited by - Chafford on 24 March 2012 14:56:08
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SunDude

Canada
139 Posts

Posted - 24 March 2012 :  15:59:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chafford

...I wonder whether this is a specially commissioned design for AC or merely a Superformance with an AC badge...


Actually you should be thrilled that this is "merely a Superformance with an AC badge."

Hi-Tech Automotive builds a fantastic product. Accurate. High quality. Durable. It will compare favorably to anything the Lubinsky-era "AC Cars" has ever sold up to now.

The 289 FIA and street Cobra replicas being produced by Hi-Tech for sale under the Shelby American, Superformance and (now) AC Cars banners are top notch vehicles. Save perhaps for an AC Heritage-built aliminum-bodied MkII, I doubt you'll find a better choice than this. Mark my words.
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Chafford

United Kingdom
695 Posts

Posted - 24 March 2012 :  16:31:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't doubt you. I suppose what I was driving at is what will distinguish the AC product from the Superformance version if the former carries a price premium.
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TLegate

United Kingdom
679 Posts

Posted - 24 March 2012 :  20:50:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
175,000 notes for the ali car....as if....!!!!!!!!!

Think I'll open another bottle of Bolly ;)
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jbottini

USA
617 Posts

Posted - 24 March 2012 :  21:08:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well then, there israw materials, manufacturing, markups at two or three levels , lisencing and the like........I'd open a case of Bolly %)
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Classicus

United Kingdom
820 Posts

Posted - 24 March 2012 :  23:20:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Which is beginning to raise hopes of a new MK II 428 at some stage ?
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Chafford

United Kingdom
695 Posts

Posted - 25 March 2012 :  12:06:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TLegate

175,000 notes for the ali car....as if....!!!!!!!!!

Think I'll open another bottle of Bolly ;)



That kind of figure is probably par for the course nowadays for specialist manufacturers producing handfuls of cars each year - Eagle are a good example.

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TLegate

United Kingdom
679 Posts

Posted - 26 March 2012 :  10:26:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are large profit margins and then there are outrageous profit margins! I think we all know about the Eagle pricing policy :) so let's not go down that road... (how can anyone advertise a car as 'completely original and unrestored' when it's been retrimmed and repainted? The English language ain't wot it was))
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Chafford

United Kingdom
695 Posts

Posted - 27 March 2012 :  18:35:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TLegate

There are large profit margins and then there are outrageous profit margins! I think we all know about the Eagle pricing policy :) so let's not go down that road... (how can anyone advertise a car as 'completely original and unrestored' when it's been retrimmed and repainted? The English language ain't wot it was))



But think of the benefits of Mr Gray's creation! A legal AC badge on the front of your car, chassis number recorded in the AC Factory ledger, a bloodline going back to the '60s cars and the ability to meet owners of original Cobras at AC events.

Surely this must be worth the extra cost over a body from Poland built by a guy called Gerry.


Edited by - Chafford on 27 March 2012 18:36:47
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TLegate

United Kingdom
679 Posts

Posted - 27 March 2012 :  20:08:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Such things matter to some folks.

Amazing what comes out of Poland, badges or no badges...
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Gus Meyjes

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 27 March 2012 :  23:53:52  Show Profile  Visit Gus Meyjes's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Personally, I'm not really disappointed in the pricing...Proves once again my portfolio has outperformed the stock market. and I concur, Poland produces wonderful stuff... looks like there might even be a gaggle of Daytona Coupes coming out of Poland..

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150570981940775&set=a.10150276817090775.378137.66078830774&type=3&theater

Edited by - Gus Meyjes on 27 March 2012 23:56:08
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MkIV Lux

Luxembourg
415 Posts

Posted - 28 March 2012 :  14:00:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What I personnaly find amazing in all these discussions about the 2012 offerings of AC, is that nobody here is concerned with the ingredients: engine, suspension, chassis.
I do fully agree that Superformance builds high quality products which externally do very closely follow the AC/Shelby Cobra ancestors looks, but under the bonnet, chassis and suspension wise they do differ quite a lot from the ancestors (though no direct lineage pedigree wise)!
All the discussions here are centered on badge and looks.
Polish built Cobras are coming very much closer to the what they are replicating.

AC Heritage products are of a different breed, one that also underneath traces back to the parental lineage!

I believe that this makes quite a difference! Whether the market will recognize this is a different matter though!?

Constant
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SunDude

Canada
139 Posts

Posted - 28 March 2012 :  16:39:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MkIV Lux

...I do fully agree that Superformance builds high quality products which externally do very closely follow the AC/Shelby Cobra ancestors looks, but under the bonnet, chassis and suspension wise they do differ quite a lot from the ancestors...

This is certainly true of the Superformance MkIII. But in the case of the Shelby continuation Cobras (289 and 427) and of the SPF MkII, Hi-Tech replicates an original-style round tube chassis with 3-inch or 4-inch mains, depending on the model. The MkII has transverse leaf-spring suspension, and the MkIII uses coil-spring suspension. I would imagine the AC versions will be similar.

Edited by - SunDude on 29 March 2012 00:32:49
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Chafford

United Kingdom
695 Posts

Posted - 28 March 2012 :  18:55:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MkIV Lux

What I personnaly find amazing in all these discussions about the 2012 offerings of AC, is that nobody here is concerned with the ingredients: engine, suspension, chassis.
I do fully agree that Superformance builds high quality products which externally do very closely follow the AC/Shelby Cobra ancestors looks, but under the bonnet, chassis and suspension wise they do differ quite a lot from the ancestors (though no direct lineage pedigree wise)!
All the discussions here are centered on badge and looks.
Polish built Cobras are coming very much closer to the what they are replicating.

AC Heritage products are of a different breed, one that also underneath traces back to the parental lineage!

I believe that this makes quite a difference! Whether the market will recognize this is a different matter though!?

Constant




Or to say it another way, whether someone is prepared to pay 175,000 for a UK built aluminium machine rather than 67,500 for a South African built car which, for all intents and purposes, looks just as good and drives just as well.

Edited by - Chafford on 28 March 2012 18:55:54
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MkIV Lux

Luxembourg
415 Posts

Posted - 29 March 2012 :  10:56:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SunDude

This is certainly true of the Superformance MkIII. But in the case of the Shelby continuation Cobras (289 and 427) and of the SPF MkII, Hi-Tech replicates an original-style round tube chassis with 3-inch or 4-inch mains, depending on the model. The MkII has transverse leaf-spring suspension, and the MkIII uses coil-spring suspension. I would imagine the AC versions will be similar.



Brian, thanks for this info. I had missed that so far.
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SunDude

Canada
139 Posts

Posted - 29 March 2012 :  12:29:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With pleasure.

As it happens the guy who developed the MkII for Hi-Tech/SPF/Shelby et al. is the guy I bought my SPF Cobra from. He painstakingly replicated the original CSX2000 cars for this project, and had access to an original throughout. I saw one of his "babies" a year ago and it was simply stunning. Only a marque expert like Ned Scudder could tell it from the real thing.
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Chafford

United Kingdom
695 Posts

Posted - 30 March 2012 :  12:55:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SunDude

With pleasure.

As it happens the guy who developed the MkII for Hi-Tech/SPF/Shelby et al. is the guy I bought my SPF Cobra from. He painstakingly replicated the original CSX2000 cars for this project, and had access to an original throughout. I saw one of his "babies" a year ago and it was simply stunning. Only a marque expert like Ned Scudder could tell it from the real thing.



From what I have read here and elsewhere, Hi Tech will be building what is essentially the same car with Superformance, Shelby and AC badges. A sensible policy from AC's point of view since it avoids expensive development costs. The price in pounds (67,500) seems to correlate closely with that in US dollars for the Superformance and Shelby versions in the States.

The 'badge engineering' is a little like BMC is the 1960s when you could buy Austin, Morris, Riley, Wolseley and MG variants of the same car!


Edited by - Chafford on 30 March 2012 13:11:20
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SunDude

Canada
139 Posts

Posted - 30 March 2012 :  13:26:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For some guys, having a Shelby or AC badge is worth the extra money over a Superformance. But for me, my budget doesn't afford me the luxury of having to choose.
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Chafford

United Kingdom
695 Posts

Posted - 30 March 2012 :  16:13:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I suppose the only difference when comparing prices will be that the AC will be a fully built car whereas the Superformance as sold in the US excludes engine and gearbox.

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MkIV Lux

Luxembourg
415 Posts

Posted - 30 March 2012 :  20:40:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SunDude

For some guys, having a Shelby or AC badge is worth the extra money over a Superformance. But for me, my budget doesn't afford me the luxury of having to choose.



Before I bought my AC Cobra MkIV, I had been extensively looking at the upper end of the replica market. I had owned a Mohr before. Kirkham were just about to start up. There were some superior handling replicas on the market over here like Superformance Mk III, CN Cobra (German built on Dax derived chassis). I had testdriven quite a few replicas and ACs then, some of the replicas had superior handling. But soon I realized that a good replica did cost almost as much as a MkIV!! So the choice was ultimately easy to make.
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MkIV Lux

Luxembourg
415 Posts

Posted - 30 March 2012 :  20:47:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
....
Originally posted by Chafford

The 'badge engineering' is a little like BMC is the 1960s when you could buy Austin, Morris, Riley, Wolseley and MG variants of the same car!




.... the difference being that BMC did the engineering, development and construction/assembly themselves, whereas here and now we have "foreign" products simply being badged as ACs and the world is made to believe that they are genuine ACs.

That is not my understanding of the definition of a car maker.

Edited by - MkIV Lux on 30 March 2012 20:49:14
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Gus Meyjes

USA
735 Posts

Posted - 31 March 2012 :  01:20:29  Show Profile  Visit Gus Meyjes's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SunDude

For some guys, having a Shelby or AC badge is worth the extra money over a Superformance. But for me, my budget doesn't afford me the luxury of having to choose.



Personally I'd much rather own a Kirkham with no Shelby or AC badge, than a Superformance with either...

Gus
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Chafford

United Kingdom
695 Posts

Posted - 31 March 2012 :  15:41:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another photo of the Mk11 Classic from Geneva:

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Chafford

United Kingdom
695 Posts

Posted - 01 April 2012 :  09:55:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MkIV Lux

quote:
....
Originally posted by Chafford

The 'badge engineering' is a little like BMC is the 1960s when you could buy Austin, Morris, Riley, Wolseley and MG variants of the same car!




.... the difference being that BMC did the engineering, development and construction/assembly themselves, whereas here and now we have "foreign" products simply being badged as ACs and the world is made to believe that they are genuine ACs.

That is not my understanding of the definition of a car maker.



No, but if you want to take this approach, then the Autokraft MkIVs produced between 1982 and 1986 before Brian Angliss took a stake in the AC company were also 'foreign' products with an AC badge - the AC company playing no part in the MkIV's initial development.

Personally I prefer the inclusive approach: Autokrafts and the current cars being regarded as genuine ACs.
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Chafford

United Kingdom
695 Posts

Posted - 26 April 2012 :  12:26:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Courtesy of 'MarkIV' on the Club Cobra website, here are some more photos of the Mk11 Classic. AC used the car developed by Riverside Racers in Canada with Hi Tech in South Africa as its Geneva show car with an AC badge attached - the car is now at Mark IV's Superformance dealership in the States and will be marketed as the Superformance Mk 11 'Slabside'. The Shelby CSX8000 series, also built by Hi Tech, is the same basic car.

http://www.riversideracers.com/

No doubt, this will be very close to the final AC model once it has passed Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA) rules.












According to 'Mark IV', the chassis is a development of the one 'Superformance developed for the FIA and USRRC models using the original AC Cars blueprints and specifications. Upgrades including stronger frame tubes, updated Wilwood brakes and other modifications provide an improved driving experience while keeping the original feel.'











Edited by - Chafford on 28 April 2012 13:14:24
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